Episode 3: A Conversation with Dr. Luvelle Brown

Steve Barkley 

Welcome to this episode of Leaders Learning From Leaders. Today, our guest is Dr. Luvelle Brown, the superintendent of Ithaca School District in New York State. Dr. Brown is a nationally recognized speaker, consultant, and author of the book, “Culture of Love: Cultivating a Positive and Transformational Organizational Culture.” He was the 2017 New York State Superintendent of the Year, and he has served as Ithaca’s superintendent since 2011. Welcome, Dr. Brown. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

It’s a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. 

Steve Barkley 

I’m wondering, for starters, if you could tell listeners a little bit about the Ithaca School District and maybe highlight for us some of the most promising indicators of success you’ve had during your time there in the district. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

Sure. I think Ithaca, New York, is one of the most beautiful places in the country. “Ithaca is gorgeous” – it’s the thing that’s on most T-shirts around here. Central New York, Ithaca, a very diverse town, a college town, great college town. Been recognized as the number one college town in America, the smartest town in America. The home of Cornell University the home of Ithaca College, Tompkins Community College, so a significant amount of academic intelligence and success in our great town. A very diverse town in that is a mix of rural, urban and suburban. A pretty large geographic area, all still within the Ithaca City School District boundaries. Diverse as far as racial ethnicity, diverse as far as economic status, diverse as far as even religion and even political. So as we define diversity, as we say, access and opportunities for all, we have a cohort of young people who need us to be different and better each and every day because of the various needs that come into a space. So again, I think a very vibrant town, one of the best small towns in America. I’ve been here now, and this is my 14th year, and I’m loving every minute of it. 

Steve Barkley 

And highlight a couple of the successes you saw as most promising. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

Sure. During my time, we’ve established new benchmarks now. Our graduation rate has soared. During my time here, our enrollment patterns have shifted. Prior to coming, there were significant achievement gaps and tracking going on in our very diverse school district, and we’ve done much to eliminate those tracks and increase achievement for all young people. We have more and more young people participating in performing arts and athletics before and after school. We have more and more young people taking our highest level course offerings. We’ve been recognized by the College Board for, I think, nine straight years for increasing the diverse enrollment in our highest level academic courses, including AP and honors, and at the same time increasing the achievement for all those students. We have been now recognized as the second best Stem High school in New York State, nationally. So when we think about I could go on and on and on. As we think about student achievement, we’ve seen significant transformations and high levels of performance amongst our young people and embracing the great diversity that comes into our space. What we wanted to do when I came in more than a decade ago was to provide the best education for all of our young people. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

Not just those who have been traditionally doing well in our schools and those with privileges, but for those who have been traditionally marginalized in our schools and who had not shown up in the data very well. During my tenure, I can say with much confidence that we’ve changed the game and changed the world for all of them and we’re very proud of it. 

Steve Barkley 

I think you’ve touched on my next question, so you may want to just expand it a little bit. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

Sure. 

Steve Barkley 

But as I was doing my homework to find out about you, I found a statement that you made that said leaders need to feel a sense of urgency in meeting the needs of young people. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

Yes. 

Steve Barkley 

So I was wondering how that sense of urgency played out in your early days in Ithaca. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

A couple of things – and let me define a sense of urgency. A sense of urgency is when we see that there are issues or where young people aren’t showing up good in our data, or they’re telling us they don’t feel a sense of belonging, we do something. Now, that sense of urgency about doing something doesn’t always translate into something’s going to happen immediately. Because the work that we’ve been a part of, the things that we’ve done, takes time and we have to impress upon folks to do this well, it requires us to be inclusive, it requires us to build trust, it requires us to build systems and structures and policies that will be sustainable far beyond who is the superintendent, who’s on the board, and who’s even an educator. So what we’ve done takes time. We’ve been doing this in an ongoing way. And that sense of urgency is that when we see there’s an issue, we reject neutrality, we reject retreating back to our traditional ways, we actually do something. And our young people see that and feel that they push us each and every day to be better and we have. 

Steve Barkley 

So I want to check – as I was listening to you, I jotted down in my notes, it sounds like the focus is on action rather than immediate results.  

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

And the results are going to be there. Just listening to a young person, just partnering with a young person, just shifting something that happens on a young person’s desk the next day, is an immediate action. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

Where I tend to ask for folks’ patience, which is a loving principle, is when we think about how we would then hold ourselves accountable or how would we measure it. From my perspective, we’ve had accountability measures and metrics that have, in fact, perpetuated inequities. When we think about the standardized approaches to assessing young people or the ways in which we evaluate and then we remediate, it has all contributed to us excluding, putting in front of young people things that are culturally biased. So we are reestablishing and redefining what we mean by results and how we hold ourselves accountable. I ask our young people, our young people to ask me, hold me accountable for partnering with you. Hold me accountable for not being neutral. And we can talk about what those achievement metrics and those data points will look like over time, because what we know is that we’ve built a model that has contributed to the inequities that we say we want to eradicate. 

Steve Barkley 

I’m a little out of breath because that statement is so powerful. The willingness to accept where we know what we’re doing isn’t the right thing to be doing. We got to steer that and I guess that drives a sense of urgency. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

And that’s part of my story and a part of my passion and why I wake up every day inspired and feeling privileged to be a school leader. I’ve lived this for close to 50 years. I was a student who navigated the system. I survived the system. I don’t think I thrived in it, but I did survive. I am now in a system and a leader in a system that I know needs disruption, because at the same time, it was harming me as a student and my friends who were students. It has harmed me as a leader. So I know the system we’ve built, the one in which I’ve been successful navigating, have achieved in, is not good for everyone. Now, if more and more educators would be truly reflective about who we’ve served well and who we have not, I hope they can be intellectually honest enough to say that. And then when saying that, that requires us to do something about it, and we know what to do. There is a significant amount of academic research, literature, case studies, about what to do to open up access and opportunities and high levels of achievement for everyone. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

The challenge and the issue is doing that. Because doing that is where our country is right now, it’s seen as a zero sum game. Or if I do something for those who have been marginalized, it will be taken from those who have privileges. And I reject that notion. I know when we do this work that I’ve been a part of throughout my career, it benefits everyone. And I hope over the next 10, 15, 20 years, I may not see it, Steve – I hope that’s where we shift as a country, as a society. The social, political, the geopolitical context understands that notion. But in my little small part of the world, I hope it happens in schools. 

Steve Barkley 

Yeah. I’ve often described it as people seeing it as a pie with pieces and if you’re going to empower one group, the only way they can imagine it happening is taking it away from some other group versus understanding that if you’re looking at it as a group and a piece of the group gets stronger, it makes the whole greater. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

And I will add Steve, that perspective that you’re describing typically rests with those who have privileges. As a person who’s grown up without those privileges, who’s been outside of the system, who has had family members and friends punished by the system, I’ve always seen it as a pie that should be bigger and not a pie with difference. So it just speaks to perspective and I’m here to create something new – help our young people create something new for themselves. 

Steve Barkley 

I noted that you’re engaged in the Learning 2025 National Commission on Student Centered Equity Focused Education. I wondered if you’d talk a little bit about that. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

Yeah, that was a fun and significant initiative that was led by the association for School Superintendents. It was a national group, I think there were around 26 of us from various industries. I was honored to be asked to be a part of a conversation about what could it look like if we truly could dream about the best school district, the best system ever. And we debated, we talked, we put, in writing, some of our thoughts. I think for the folks who read the report that we produced, you’ll see that it’s a student centered and student led approach to the next iteration of schools and it’s an approach that will look like us not marginalizing anyone. And that’s asking us, it’s requiring us to be truly reflective of what we’ve done currently and be reflective of how we can interrupt the existing practices. So a great initiative, a great white paper, I will encourage folks and invite folks to read it and there is ongoing work. That commission has now resulted in annual conference, ongoing coaching sessions, cohorts, et cetera. So the work is not done. We have a lot of work to do, frankly, to get to that vision by 2025 that we’ve all severed. 

Steve Barkley 

Could you help us zero in on what student centered means as the way it’s being used in that report? 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

In that report, and in my daily conversations with folks, we’re saying that we should partner with young people on everything we do. If not partner with them, then have them lead it. Now, that could be professional development, which is happening in Ithaca right now, young people leading professional development, that can be curriculum development. Having young people be at the table with educators to develop curriculum that can be in our evaluation processes, as having young people go into classrooms and look for elements and artifacts of joy and student learning. The folks who are listening to this podcast, the work that you are part of right now and the work that you’re planning to do this year and next year, are students there at the table with you designing it and or leading it? And if the answer is no or you don’t know, that’s the work. So the report leads with student-centered. I hope everyone understands what we mean by student-centered. It’s not for students, it’s student-centered. 

Steve Barkley 

I also know that you were just involved in the Diversity Symposium of Thought Leaders. Want to talk a little bit about that? 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

I’d love to. Thanks to the Council of School Superintendents in New York State, they’ve allowed for me and a gentleman named Dr. Oliver Robinson to co-chair a commission. A commission initially intending to create more access and opportunities for educators to become superintendents because in our state, there were far too few superintendents of color. And we needed to do something and along this path and on this journey to create access and opportunities and have more superintendents of color in seats, we’ve been unearthing policies, professional development systems, all kinds of other issues. So we come together annually and it’s been in Ithaca where we’ve brought together hundreds of educators to engage in courageous conversations, to hear from some of the best thinking in the world. We’ve had amazing keynote speakers, we’ve had wonderful breakout sessions. So this symposium is folks who are committed to diversity, equity and inclusion. And for the folks who can’t say diversity, equity and inclusion, access and opportunities for everybody. See, we’re differentiating. We’re good educators. We are meeting folks where they are on this journey. But let me be clear. The work is the work. And the work is the work for every young person in America. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

This is not about just ethnicity. We’re talking about religion, orientation, class, gender, nationality and ethnicity. We’re talking about embracing the great diversity that comes into every school in America and then shifting our practices to make sure everyone, irrespective of their identities, are successful. That’s the work. And that’s how commission’s work. And we’re super excited about it. 

Steve Barkley 

And that success has payoffs for everyone. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

Everyone. We know this. A multicultural education and pedagogy benefits everyone. I’ve had the privilege of sitting on several dissertation committees over the last few years, and many of those dissertations have been focused on the impact of diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives. And what we’re finding, and the research is very clear I can share with folks the bibliographies, is that when we do this work well, it benefits every student. That’s why I say boldly, that not engaging in conversations about access and opportunities for everyone, not including multiple cultures in our curriculum and our pedagogies, it is almost educational malpractice. When we know it benefits everyone and we don’t do it, it hurts those who are most privileged and it hurts those who have been marginalized. That is something every super in America should be saying today. 

Steve Barkley 

Your book has “culture of love” in the title, so I want to know what a culture of love is. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

Let me be clear. I’ll start with this. A culture of love is not the default in schools. A culture of love is the struggle. In my book, we define what we mean by love, and it goes far beyond this emotional connection you may have with an individual or people. It’s about the ongoing practices and principles that are loving – patience, trust, caring, forgiveness, commitment. How do those principles show up in your individual lives and in the DNA of the organization and the schools? Are your grading practices loving? Are they forgiving when we give zeros or we take points off of work that comes in late? Are we trusting when we don’t embrace the student voice and agency that’s coming into our space to change our policies and curriculum? See, we’ve defined what love is. And I can say, having been in schools for 50 years, every single day for 50 years now, that the practices and principles that are baked into the DNA organizational ethos of schools is counter to love. That’s why I have been working on how to build that loving culture in schools. And there is a process. It can be done. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

It has been done. Now, sustaining it is another thing, because once you have a loving organization, there are folks who want to interrupt it. Because a loving organization is access and opportunities for everybody. And what I’ve learned on this journey of mine is that not everyone wants that kind of access and opportunities for everybody because of their perspectives, their biases, their fears. If we just listen to what’s happening in our country right now around gender identity, does everybody want that? Does everyone want to love the young people who come into our spaces, some as young as five or six years old? Do you want to love that child who has questions or has made decisions about their gender identity that goes against yours? Do you want to love that child? Or do you want to create a law or a policy to marginalize or oppress or to shift their thinking? That’s one of those questions. I have many we ask, but I ask folks to just reflect on that one. 

Steve Barkley 

So you’ve got 50 years at this. I’m coming up on 65 years at this. And I have to say, as I was just listening to you, I’ll never forget the shock when I was talking about closing the achievement gap a whole lot of years ago, before that was a common phrase. And it suddenly hit me that there were a whole group of people that had absolutely no interest in the achievement gap closing. In other words, they were interested in improvement as long as the improvement kept the gap. And the first time it hit me with a group of parents in a school district, it took my breath away. It took my breath away. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

Some folks don’t want to hear it. Some folks wish to ignore it. And there’s others who get guilty and feel like they shouldn’t be put in a place where they feel uncomfortable. But let’s be clear that our country, our educational system, many of our system healthcare systems, legal systems have been built on this notion of inequity. It has been built on exclusion and sorting and selecting has been built on biased thinking. So we know that. It makes sense why some folks do not want to interrupt or close achievement gaps because it has benefited them. And that’s the work. Whether you choose to do it or not, is the question I put in front of educators all over the country. 

Steve Barkley 

So I pulled another statement as I was doing my homework on you, and this one was connected to your book. And the statement was, a leader is not predicated on a title, but instead on a way of thinking, working and living. And I wondered if you’d describe a little bit of how you see that showing up in your leadership. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

A couple of things I’ve said to folks. If I do my job well, over time, there will be no need for a superintendent. I think just the notion of a superintendent and a governance team, perpetuates, power hoarding. A few people making major decisions. In a truly inclusive environment, you have a bunch of independent, autonomous organisms. We see that with birds, flocks of birds, swarms of bees, a bunch of autonomous, independent organisms that are operating in an inseperable way around a common mental model and vision. So if we have everyone thinking about access and opportunities for everybody and have a vision for what that thinking will look like, if everybody was thinking in that way, then you won’t need a superintendent and a teacher, a bus driver. There’s so many educators in a given day who have access to our young people who can influence them and push towards a culture of love. You won’t need a title or the superintendent to come in and influence that. Again, I’ve been considered or called a leader since I was eight years old, being the captain of my little league baseball team, and have been captain and a leader since then in various organizations and on various teams. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

And every time I’ve thought, I’m not a leader unless I have some folks who are with me who are doing most of the work. Now, I’m a facilitator of conversations, I’m a facilitator of work, but in no way am I doing it all or not better than anybody else. So that’s why I say it’s not predicated on title. It’s a way of being. Our vision for our school district is thinking if we had everyone in the organization and everyone in the community thinking, oh, man, we would change the world. 

Steve Barkley 

Yeah. Well, as we conclude, I’m wondering if there’s some words of practice and encouragement that you’d like to share with the school leaders who are listening in. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

I ask folks to think about the journey they’re on and whether it’s a very academic one. If you’re reading articles and checking and liking some things on Facebook, or if you’re just writing statements or passing a policy to say that you believe in equity and access and opportunities for everybody. Or are you truly on the authentic journey, which is different from the academic one. The authentic one is when you see that there are issues, you actively do something about it. You’re actually changing the pedagogies and the curriculum that you put in front of young people each and every day. You’re actually looking for oppressive language and marginalizing language and policies, and you shift that language to be more inclusive. You’re actually working every day to be more loving in your policies and your practices and in your rhetoric. See, that authentic journey is hard, but it’s rewarding. It will produce young people who are thinkers, who are engaged citizens, who have a sense of voice and agency. See, I’m on the authentic journey, and I am hopefully inspiring some folks to join me on that journey, knowing it’s going to be hard, and it will face resistance.  

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

My ancestors were abolitionists, and they would say all the time, I know I won’t see the beautiful country and situation I’m fighting for, but I’m going to fight anyway. And so I have a long vision for this work in our industry. I may not see it, but what I hope I’ve done is inspired somebody to take my place when I’m gone. I’ll leave you with that, Steve. 

Steve Barkley 

Well, it matches that statement of being able to look out seven generations looking back and having them ask whether or not we did the right things to move it in the right direction. It’s where we really need to be. Thank you. Thank you so much. I’m wondering what’s the easiest way that listeners might check in with you, find out more about your book, or connect with you? 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

It’s easy. This may date me – my email address and I answer every email, luvelleb@gmail.com. There are no numbers in that thing, no hyphen. I got one of those original email addresses. And send me a quick email and I’ll get right back to you. 

Steve Barkley 

Well, we’ll be sure to post it with the podcast. Thanks again. Much appreciated. 

Dr. Luvelle Brown 

Likewise. Thank you.